Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
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Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
Israel has finally attacked Gaza after 6000 rockets over 7 years. The world is screaming as expected. The Times on line seem miffed the war spoilt Obama's schedule.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5409322.ece?Submitted=true
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5409322.ece?Submitted=true

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
International Law and the Fighting in Gaza
Justus Reid Weiner & Avi Bell
http://www.jcpa.org/text/puzzle1.pdf
Conclusion
The Palestinian-Israeli fighting in Gaza has been characterized by the extensive commission of war crimes, acts of terrorism and acts of genocide by Palestinian fighters. On the other hand, Israeli counter-measures have conformed with the requirements of international law, with the possible exception that Israel may be legally required to cut off aid to the Palestinians. Israel may continue to impose economic sanctions and engage in military strikes including a full-scale assault on the Gaza Strip, as long as it continues to abide by the basic humanitarian rules of distinction and proportionality. Other states can, and must, do more to encourage compliance with international legal standards by fulfilling their own legal obligations, while refraining from raising specious charges against Israel. International law requires Israel and other states to take measures to bring Palestinian war criminals and terrorists to justice, to prevent and punish Palestinian genocidal efforts and to block the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups and those complicit with them.
Ya know if Israel followed International law by rights they should cut off all aid to the Gazans. So should the rest of the world. They all agreed at the UN at one time.
************
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=1&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=378&PID=0&IID=2808&TTL=Did_Israel_Use_
Dore Gold
Published December 2008
Did Israel Use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?
***********
Justus Reid Weiner & Avi Bell
http://www.jcpa.org/text/puzzle1.pdf
Conclusion
The Palestinian-Israeli fighting in Gaza has been characterized by the extensive commission of war crimes, acts of terrorism and acts of genocide by Palestinian fighters. On the other hand, Israeli counter-measures have conformed with the requirements of international law, with the possible exception that Israel may be legally required to cut off aid to the Palestinians. Israel may continue to impose economic sanctions and engage in military strikes including a full-scale assault on the Gaza Strip, as long as it continues to abide by the basic humanitarian rules of distinction and proportionality. Other states can, and must, do more to encourage compliance with international legal standards by fulfilling their own legal obligations, while refraining from raising specious charges against Israel. International law requires Israel and other states to take measures to bring Palestinian war criminals and terrorists to justice, to prevent and punish Palestinian genocidal efforts and to block the funding of Palestinian terrorist groups and those complicit with them.
Ya know if Israel followed International law by rights they should cut off all aid to the Gazans. So should the rest of the world. They all agreed at the UN at one time.
************
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=1&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=378&PID=0&IID=2808&TTL=Did_Israel_Use_
Dore Gold
Published December 2008
Did Israel Use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?
***********

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
From Melanie..
That's exactly the implication.
Just lay down and take it.
I wonder how much of a pounding the world expects Israel to take before they are allowed to shoot back..???????????
Or maybe Isreal should just build their own ovens and willingly walk into them..??
Unflippinbelievable what the world does to the jews.
The implication is that Israel should suffer the Palestinian rockets attacks indefinitely.
That's exactly the implication.
Just lay down and take it.
I wonder how much of a pounding the world expects Israel to take before they are allowed to shoot back..???????????
Or maybe Isreal should just build their own ovens and willingly walk into them..??
Unflippinbelievable what the world does to the jews.

calmage-

Number of posts: 3782
Age: 54
Location: Okanagan Valley
Registration date: 2007-12-10
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
FC at the NP has a opinion with comments on the Gaza situation. One has to wonder who some of the jerks are?
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/01/01/224313.aspx
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/01/01/224313.aspx

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
Some great comments there...
One marvelous poster lampasted the idiots with a list of what Israel has endured.
Some of those asinine comments support the adage that a "little knowledge is a terrible thing"...
One marvelous poster lampasted the idiots with a list of what Israel has endured.
Some of those asinine comments support the adage that a "little knowledge is a terrible thing"...

calmage-

Number of posts: 3782
Age: 54
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Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
Islamism is enjoying a resurgence throughout the Islamic world, though it may remain invisible a little longer to Western observers relying on media that have lost interest in the topic. It will become visible again only when there are renewed, newsworthy terrorist attacks on Western targets.
For the moment, this resurgence may be detected only in the accelerated retreat of the forces of order, in places like Pakistan's North-West Frontier, where the authorities have recently negotiated a ceasefire in which large areas of Pakistan's sovereign territory are effectively surrendered to the rule of Taliban-like militias imposing strict Sharia; or the overturning of transient gains made against Islamist forces in Yemen and the Horn of Africa.
The reasons for this resurgence are ready to hand. To the Islamist mind, the United States and her allies appear mortally wounded by a financial crisis that is metastasizing into an international depression. While they, too, suffer from the collapse of the oil price, and such funding as depends upon it, their war against the "Great Satan" remains asymmetrical, and material setbacks count harder against their enemy.
But there is a larger, though less tangible reason for their renewed confidence. "Bush and Blair" -- the enemies Islamists most feared and detested -- are now gone from the world stage, and the vision and determination with which they resisted Islamism has become suddenly a thing of the past.
The new American president, Barack Obama, has come to power with a promise to negotiate with America's most deadly enemies; he signalled weakness unambiguously in a television interview to the Muslim world; he wants out of Iraq, and does not know what he is doing in Afghanistan. The very gloom and doom he is preaching on the home front, in order to get huge "progressive" spending measures through Congress, is the final confirmation that the United States is down and ready for the kicking.
Similarly, Hillary Clinton's new tone -- both for her and for the U.S. -- can only cheer Islamist hearts. American Jewish leaders have already expressed alarm at her recent remarks on Israel. The proposal to drop nearly a billion U.S. tax dollars into "rebuilding Gaza" after the recent Israeli incursions is exceptionally alarming. The money can only go into the pockets of Hamas, given their total control of the territory. Much of it will certainly be used to rebuild the Hamas arsenal, for renewed missile and other terror attacks against Israelis.
The new, increasingly "neutral" or indifferent U.S. posture towards Israel was on display in preparations for the United Nations' Durban II conference. U.S. delegates failed to challenge resolutions that would equate "Zionism" with "racism," and identify Israel alone among all nations as a violator of "human rights." Under intense domestic pressure, the Obama administration withdrew from the conference Friday, having come perilously close to participating in an international anti-Semitic propaganda stunt, which would provide ideological cover for murderous assaults on Israel and Jews everywhere.
Israel has not been the key target of most Islamist movements, however.
The focus, for the past several years, has been on Iraq, primarily, and secondarily Afghanistan and Pakistan. The destruction of the secular democracy now established in Iraq (unique in the Arab world) has been the priority both in propaganda, and in practical terror operations.
If the U.S. and allies abandon the Iraqi regime (the way Jimmy Carter abandoned the Shah of Iran), everything President Bush accomplished will have been more than undone. The pressure on other Arab states to make the sort of concessions to Islamists that Pakistan is now making will grow exponentially, for the world will look very different to the "moderate" tyrants of Arabia, Egypt and North Africa, once the U.S. has fled.
There will, moreover, be nothing left standing in the way of Iran's emergence as the regional superpower. The proxies of Iran's patronage -- Hezbollah and Hamas -- are daggers officially pointed at the throat of Israel. But every regional Arab regime is vividly aware that they could be pointed elsewhere.
When I wrote about these questions of "realpolitik," diplomacy and war, over the past eight years, it was with the assurance that while it might make mistakes, the Bush administration was at least aware of the threats, and aware that America's own security depended on how those threats were parried. Quite frankly, after 40 days of the Obama presidency, it is obvious that this realism is gone. We have a new administration that genuinely does not grasp the consequences of retreat from its inherited international obligations.
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?id=981

Dirtman-

Number of posts: 1383
Location: Central BC
Registration date: 2007-12-29
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
The world has pledged $15 billion to rebuild Gaza.
They win again. Rocket attacks have not stopped but the niumbers are reduced.
Obama is planning a trip to the ME. Maybe a buddy chat with Maaaagmoud?
They win again. Rocket attacks have not stopped but the niumbers are reduced.
Obama is planning a trip to the ME. Maybe a buddy chat with Maaaagmoud?

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
Maybe a buddy chat with Maaaagmoud?
While he turns his back on Israel..??
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506848,00.html
Does anyone have any idea of what his policy is around Israel..?
Could his penchant for wanting to talk to the whacko's in the ME suggest perhaps that his sympathies lie with the Palestinians..?
It's so readily apparent that the Big O doesn't know what the fack he's doing .. at home here or abroad...
He asks for patience...
And I keep wondering if what he is really asking is that we all go back to sleep while he runs a few more social experiments locally and acts like there is no war on terror.

calmage-

Number of posts: 3782
Age: 54
Location: Okanagan Valley
Registration date: 2007-12-10
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
And like this shit..??
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/09/talk-taliban-outreach-obama-makes-court-press/
Ummm... no..
Just the democrats are tired and worried.
The Republicans want to kick your ass.
And... we have reason to trust Russia ..??
The Russians are the ones providing Iran with Bushehr power reactors and low enrichment uranium and gawd knows what else under cover.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/09/talk-taliban-outreach-obama-makes-court-press/
David Rittgers, a legal policy analyst with the Cato Institute who served three tours with the U.S. Army's Special Forces in Afghanistan, said the statement would mark the most extreme attempt so far to engage an adversary.
He said negotiating with moderates at the local level, some of whom might fall under the multifaceted umbrella of the Taliban, could be possible and worthwhile. But he said any attempt to divide and conquer the Taliban would probably fail, and he said Obama had given the Taliban leadership "propaganda strength" in publicly suggesting that outreach is possible.
"They really are negotiating from a position of strength. What are we going to offer them?" Rittgers said. "I don't know where we're going to find the common ground, with the exception of leaving their drug money alone."
He said the Taliban does not offer the same opportunities as the Sunnis in Iraq, because whereas the Sunnis could be economically motivated, many in the Taliban control drug money and are economically independent.
Shortly after the Obama interview was published, a Taliban spokesman told Britain's Guardian newspaper that the overture was a sign that Americans are "tired and worried."
Ummm... no..
Just the democrats are tired and worried.
The Republicans want to kick your ass.
And the administration has escalated outreach to Russia in recent weeks, with Obama writing a letter to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. Though Obama denied it, some officials suggested the letter floated the possibility that the U.S. could junk its plans for a missile defense shield Moscow opposes in exchange for Russia's help in stopping Iran from building nuclear weapons.
And... we have reason to trust Russia ..??
The Russians are the ones providing Iran with Bushehr power reactors and low enrichment uranium and gawd knows what else under cover.

calmage-

Number of posts: 3782
Age: 54
Location: Okanagan Valley
Registration date: 2007-12-10
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
The Hamas 'Peace' Gambit
Charles Krauthammer
Friday, May 08, 2009
"Apart from the time restriction (a truce that lapses after 10 years) and the refusal to accept Israel's existence, Mr. Meshal's terms approximate the Arab League peace plan ... "
-- Hamas peace plan, as explained by The New York Times
"Apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"
-- Tom Lehrer, satirist WASHINGTON -- The Times conducted a five-hour interview with Hamas leader Khaled Meshal at his Damascus headquarters. Mirabile dictu, they're offering a peace plan with a two-state solution. Except. The offer is not a peace but a truce that expires after 10 years. Meaning that after Israel has fatally weakened itself by settling millions of hostile Arab refugees in its midst, and after a decade of Hamas arming itself within a Palestinian state that narrows Israel to eight miles wide -- Hamas restarts the war against a country it remains pledged to eradicate.
There is a phrase for such a peace: the peace of the grave.
Westerners may be stupid, but Hamas is not. It sees the new American administration making overtures to Iran and Syria. It sees Europe, led by Britain, beginning to accept Hezbollah. It sees itself as next in line. And it knows what to do. Yasser Arafat wrote the playbook.
With the 1993 Oslo accords, he showed what can be achieved with a fake peace treaty with Israel -- universal diplomatic recognition, billions of dollars of aid, and control of Gaza and the West Bank, which Arafat turned into an armed camp. In return for a signature, he created in the Palestinian territories the capacity to carry on the war against Israel that the Arab states had begun in 1948 but had given up after the bloody hell of the 1973 Yom Kippur War.
Meshal sees the opportunity. Not only is the Obama administration reaching out to its erstwhile enemies in the region, but it begins its term by wagging an angry finger at Israel over the Netanyahu government's ostensible refusal to accept a two-state solution.
Of all the phony fights to pick with Israel. No Israeli government would turn down a two-state solution in which the Palestinians accepted territorial compromise and genuine peace with a Jewish state. (And any government that did would be voted out in a day.) Netanyahu's own defense minister, Ehud Barak, offered precisely such a deal in 2000. He even offered to divide Jerusalem and expel every Jew from every settlement remaining in the new Palestine.
The Palestinian response (for those who have forgotten) was: No. And no counteroffer. Instead, nine weeks later, Arafat unleashed a savage terror war that killed 1,000 Israelis.
Netanyahu is reluctant to agree to a Palestinian state before he knows what kind of state it will be. That elementary prudence should be shared by anyone who's been sentient the last three years. The Palestinians already have a state, an independent territory with not an Israeli settler or soldier living on it. It's called Gaza. And what is it? A terror base, Islamist in nature, Iranian-allied, militant and aggressive, that has fired more than 10,000 rockets and mortars at Israeli civilians.
If this is what a West Bank state is going to be, it would be madness for Israel or America or Jordan or Egypt or any other moderate Arab country to accept such a two-state solution. Which is why Netanyahu insists that the Palestinian Authority first build institutions -- social, economic and military -- to anchor a state that could actually carry out its responsibilities to keep the peace.
Apart from being reasonable, Netanyahu's two-state skepticism is beside the point. His predecessor, Ehud Olmert, worshiped at the shrine of a two-state solution. He made endless offers of a two-state peace to the Palestinian Authority -- and got nowhere.
Why? Because the Palestinians -- going back to the U.N. partition resolution of 1947 -- have never accepted the idea of living side by side with a Jewish state. Those like Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who might want to entertain such a solution, have no authority to do it. And those like Hamas' Meshal, who have authority, have no intention of ever doing it.
Meshal's gambit to dress up perpetual war as a two-state peace is yet another iteration of the Palestinian rejectionist tragedy. In its previous incarnation, Arafat lulled Israel and the Clinton administration with talk of peace while he methodically prepared his people for war.
Arafat waited seven years to tear up his phony peace. Meshal's innovation? Ten -- then blood.
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I can't see Israel surviving another 20 years. I think Obama is switching sides albeit under disguises or sorts. Peace plans that weaken Israel and strengthen Hamas.
<<--- Israel in 2020. Obama ----> 

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
Israel will see through Obama...
They are smart and have survived way worse than the One can dish out...
They are smart and have survived way worse than the One can dish out...

calmage-

Number of posts: 3782
Age: 54
Location: Okanagan Valley
Registration date: 2007-12-10
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
The Dismantling of Israel
Bruce Bialosky
Monday, May 11, 2009
Barry Soetoro attended Muslim schools and sat for 20 years in Rev Wrights sermons. Nothing of that crap rubbed off?
Bruce Bialosky
Monday, May 11, 2009
If you read the recent Bipartisan Statement on U.S. Middle East Peacemaking, you can be very impressed by the credentials of the ten participants. You can also be stunned at how such a lofty group can be so ignorant of the history of the last century. After reading their statement three times, it was easy to come to the conclusion that they were passing around a bong while writing this statement of irrationality.
You must be impressed with their guile. They call it “A Last Chance for a Two-State Israel-Palestine Agreement.” Certainly with names like Scowcroft, Brzezinski, Volcker, Wolfensohn and Thomas Pickering involved, you can see how they came to this heady claim. The fact that there did not seem to be one member in the group pitching for the safety and security of our ally, Israel, becomes quite evident when you read the 17 stunning pages that make up this ego stroke.
How about coming up with one concession by the Palestinians, Syrians or other Arab parties to this proposal? There is proposal after proposal for the Israelis to give. Now, the Jews would like to believe they are a giving people, but they learned from history that you cannot concede all points. It could be easy to say that this proposal does not even come close to a negotiation. What it should be called is a plan for the unilateral dismemberment of Israel.
Not even once does this document state the Israeli’s principle point of negotiation – recognition by the negotiating parties to Israel’s right to exist. We are not even speaking of their right to exist as a Jewish State. The plan does not even mention that the Arab parties need to recognize Israel as neither a beginning point of agreement nor an ending point. One would like to ask these people of immense knowledge and experience what they were thinking when they did not include this in their plan. Why would any country have serious negotiations with another that does not believe in its right to exist?
The plan drafters included a point that Jerusalem should be split into parts and become the capital of a Palestinian State and Israel. Does anyone really consider this a plausible solution? Since 1967 when Israel took over all of Jerusalem, it has become a mecca for people of all major faiths to experience. If the city were to split, it is quite apparent that Jews and Christians will not be welcome or feel safe in parts of the city. Why would the world want to have this happen once again to such an important historical place? When has a city been split into two parts and successfully served as the capital of two distinct countries? This proposal is not only unworkable, it is just plain silly.
Since the proposal calls principally for the return to the pre-1967 borders, that means the return of the Golan Heights to Syria. During the negotiations of the peace treaty consummating the First World War, the French wished to establish a natural buffer to protect them from another German invasion. They did not and we saw what happened in 1940. The Golan, basically a desolate place, is now inhabited by over 8,000 Jews and creates a natural buffer from an attack by an unstable Syria.
To protect Israel the authors suggest a U.S. led multinational force under a U.N. mandate. That must give Israeli mothers tons of comfort for the safety of their children. Other than the fact that the U.S. is involved, we can easily see the blue helmets of the U.N. running for cover ala Rwanda or many others places. Since they propose a non-militarized Palestinian State, the Israelis should rest easy. The question is do the American troops have to be in the middle of this for the next 300-400 years? What happens if the Americans do not want to be there anymore? Should the Israelis then rely on a force from Egypt, Jordan or France?
This babble would fall into the trash if it were not for the current administration. If it were released two years ago, President Bush would have swatted it away understanding the great harm this proposal would cause. It would be hard to fathom any five Republicans supporting this proposal other than the ones involved. But notice this proposal was released in January, in time for Obama and his team to soak it up and that is apparently what they have done.
From their commentary and actions, the Obama Administration has chosen to side with the Palestinians and not the Israelis. Think about it, the Palestinians break a truce, lob hundreds or rockets into residential areas of our ally, then our ally defends itself, and the Obama Administration offers the Palestinians $900 million to repair the damage -- without any concessions. In the past, America has waited for the transgressor against our allies to capitulate before we show our humanity.
Vice-President Biden went in front 6,500 strong supporters of Israel and insisted that Israel must accept a two-state solution, start to dismantle homes, and end all building in post-1967 acquired areas. That is just the beginning of their attempt to make Israel cow-tow to the combination of this “Bipartisan Proposal” and the one previously floated by Saudi Arabia. While Obama and his team talk about the eternal bind between our countries, they want to force Israel into a vapid peace that will eviscerate it.
If the Obama Administration wants to achieve peace for an ally, it should ask first what the other parties are willing to concede. It should not force Israel into giving up land that risks its security or the freedom of the entire world to visit historical areas. The Administration should encourage our Arab friends to take responsibility for the people on the West Bank and Gaza like they should have 60 years ago. After that, they should then ask Israel for even more concessions than they have made in the past.
Unfortunately, the tenor of what the Administration has communicated so far will play into the hands of the enemies of Israel. They have played a waiting game until there was an American Administration that turns its back on Israel and they know that will be the beginning of the end. The enemies of Israel know they need only one American Administration not siding with Israel. The question to Mr. Obama is will his be the one?
Link
Barry Soetoro attended Muslim schools and sat for 20 years in Rev Wrights sermons. Nothing of that crap rubbed off?

Zoofer- Number of posts: 4149
Registration date: 2007-12-11
Re: Israel to Obama...Hellooooo
it was easy to come to the conclusion that they were passing around a bong while writing this statement of irrationality.
I can't see Israel agreeing to any of this bullshit.
I think they are planning an Iranian strike... and are resigned to waiting for 3.5 years for change of administration in the US.
Israel knows how stupid many of the major players are in the UN. I can't ever see them putting the welfare of Israel in their hands.
And I skipped the disturbing video...

calmage-

Number of posts: 3782
Age: 54
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